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Growing upward could mean going backward

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Forum Legend - founder
994 posts

Well I have been having a truly experiencial week I can say that, but in my moments of lying in bed and healing the universe has conspired to show me things that I have been considering on the edge of my thoughts and putting them squarely in front of me... I love how that happens.

I have been thinking about how we got here, how we are going to get to where we want to be, how we are going to rid ourselves of all these 3rd dimensional hang ups, how we are going to bring peace to this world, how we would survive in a world racked by natural disasters amidst all our dependancy on technology and I keep getting drawn back again and again to the K.I.S.S. principal..... Keep it simple silly!   Time and time again the simplest of answers is proving to be the one that resonates with me.

And with that in mind I have drawn the conclusion that in order to move forward, we actually need to go backwards.... backwards in time, back to a period where life was simple, life had meaning, spiritual values were easy to follow and easy to understand and to return back to our selves and stop reaching out there for solace.

It wasnt a typical aha moment, just a slow progression of random ideas and thoughts, spurred on by discussions in this group about our food growing, simple living, basic spiritual principals but I have found that we have the examples available to us right in front of our eyes.... now dont laugh but in all seriousness we need to start looking at the basic principals and values of two groups of people... the amish and the quakers

Here is an exerpt from one of the quaker sites Ive just looked at, see the similarities in the new age movement

Quaker Principles and Testimonies

God is directly accessible to all persons without the need of an intermediary priest or ritual;

There is in all persons an in-dwelling Seed or Christ or Light (early Quakers used all these metaphors) which is of God and which, if they will but heed it, will guide them and shape their lives in accordance with the will of God;

True religion cannot be learned from books or set prayers, words or rituals, which early Quakers called "empty forms," but comes only from direct experience of God, known through the Seed or Christ or Light within;

The Scriptures can be understood only as one enters into the Spirit which gave them forth;

There is an ocean of darkness and death--of sin and misery--over the world but also an ocean of light and love, which flows over the ocean of darkness, revealing the infinite love of God;

The power and love of God are over all, erasing the artificial division between the secular and religious so that all of life, when lived in the Spirit, becomes sacramental. The traditional outward sacraments, again characterized as empty forms, are to be discarded in favor of the spiritual reality they symbolize.

Out of the general Quaker principles enunciated above have grown some specific applications which Friends call their testimonies. Though they manifest themselves in a variety of ways, the testimonies are basically four:

* Equality * Peace * Simplicity * Community *

Quaker Principles as defined by George Fox, an early Quaker (adapted from Introducing Quakers by Gordon Browne) Excerpted from Eau Claire (WI) Monthly Meeting web page at http://infinitejoy.com/friends on Feb 25, 1999

Historically, the Religious Society of Friends was started in the mid-1600's when a group of people in England became dissatisfied with the established Christian churches there (both Anglican and Puritan). Perhaps the best known Friend was William Penn, who founded Pennsylvania. In 1688, a Friends Meeting in Pennsylvania (meeting together with a Mennonite congregation) became the first religious body in North America to formally condemn slavery. Quakers have a place in the history of American feminism, as three of the five leaders of the original conference on women's rights held in Senaca Falls, NY, in 1848, were Friends, including Susan B. Anthony. After World War Two, the American Friends Service Committee was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for relief work.

The Amish have a similar set of values, however they to promote seperation but on reading more of them I believe that this was born only out of need to keep their way of life unpolluted by the greed and corruption the rest of the world is displaying, I truly believe seperation from other communities would not be in their belief system if everyone else were to be living similar lives, simple, spiritual, peacefull lives..

Amish way of life and values.

Amish live in small rural communities where strong family and social ties allow them their own distinctive and separate way of life. The family is the heart of Amish community, individual identity and spiritual life.

However in recent times they've diversified from farming and in some communities more than 80% work in small businesses making things like indoor and garden furniture, small sheds, quilts and leather goods.

The Amish produce many of their needs, rearing animals to produce meat, growing corn for food and for feeding animals, and growing vegetable both for food and for sale. Amish women make most of the clothes. But they are not totally self-sufficient and rely on the outside community for other requirements.

Amish values;
  • putting God and community ahead of the individual;
  • a life of 'goodness', rather than a life of intellect;
  • life as a spiritual activity, rather than a philosophy;
  • wisdom, rather than technical knowledge;
  • community welfare, rather than competition;
  • separation from, rather than integration with, modern worldly society;
  • non-resistance - seeking peaceful resolution to conflicts
  • The Amish keep themselves separate, but not exclusive, following the Biblical text "be not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:2).

    Amish live like this not because they dislike or fear other human beings but because they believe that salvation comes from the redeeming power of living a loving life in a pure community of believers who live in separation from the world.

    We must not forget that in the Middle Ages important values of the civilization of the Western World were preserved by members of religious orders who isolated themselves from all worldly influences against great obstacles. There can be no assumption that today's majority is "right" and the Amish and others like them are "wrong."

    A way of life that is odd or even erratic but interferes with no rights or interests of others is not to be condemned because it is different.

    U.S. Supreme Court, Judgement in Wisconsin v Yoder, 1972

    The Amish keep themselves apart from the communities around them in several ways:

    • they wear distinctive clothes; straw hats, dark shirts and trousers with braces for men and plain and modest dresses with bonnets or caps for women.
    • they are pacifists and don't serve in the military -- guns are used only for hunting
    • they don't swear oaths or hold elective office, and usually don't vote
    • they don't go to law because that is seen as too confrontational
    • they don't own modern technology
    • they don't accept any state benefits or use insurance
    • they have their own education system
    • they speak a German dialect among themselves
    • they marry among their community

    Although the Amish separate themselves from the mainstream communities around them, they aren't exclusive and do business with their neighbours. The ideal Amish occupation is to be a farmer, but Amish men also do factory work.

    Pragmatism

    The Amish interpret their beliefs pragmatically. They adapt to the world in order to be able to continue to continue their redeeming life in a pure community separate from the world. The doctrine of separation is regarded as an ideal, but is interpreted in a practical rather than a rigid way. This permits the Amish to build productive working relationships with the outside world, and to establish a network of contacts that they can use for the benefit of their community. Stephen A Marglin gives an example of how the Amish rejection of one modern practice, insurance, is entirely in line with the preservation of the community:

    ...they forbid insurance precisely because they understand that the market relationship between an individual and the insurance company undermines the mutual dependence of the individuals that forms the basis of the community.

    For the Amish, barn-raisings are not exercises in nostalgia, but the cement which holds the community together...

    ...An Amishman's decision to insure his barn undermines the mutual dependence of the Amish not only by making him less dependent on the community, but also by subverting the beliefs that sustain this dependence.

    Stephen A. Marglin, Development as Poison: Rethinking the Western Model of Modernity, Harvard International Review, 2003

    In the last 50 years the Amish have become more pragmatic in their approach to technology, while perhaps becoming more separate as a community:

    In the decades since 1960 the Old Order Amish have in many ways become more sectarian than they were before that time. In a paradoxical way this religious development has taken place simultaneously with a greater Old Order openness to negotiating technological change. Technological and religious conservatism were de-coupled, with religious life becoming more fixed even as mechanical innovation became more possible. Steve Nolt, The Amish 'Mission Movement' and the Reformulation of Amish Identity in the Twentieth Century, Mennonite Quarterly Review 2001 

    Why technology is limited

    The Plain People are not modern day Luddites who disparage new technology. Donald B Kraybill, Journal of Mass Media Ethics, 1998

    The Amish avoid modern technology not because they want to live ascetic and uncomfortable lives but to preserve the uniqueness of their way of life.

    New conveniences are assessed to see how they would affect the social patterns and cohesiveness of the Amish community, and anything that might damage their way of life is rejected. Less dangerous technology may be adapted to fit.

    They scrutinize practices, services, and products to see whether they would generate life-style changes which would hurt community solidarity, create tension within families or between different families, or open the community to excessive dependence on outside institutions.

    Anything, for example, that might suddenly create conspicuous differences between "haves" and "have nots" is a prime candidate for rejection.

    Hostetler and Kidder point out that conveniences are accepted when it is necessary to do so - electricity is barred in the home, but accepted in farm buildings because if the Amish did not comply with regulations to refrigerate milk at the farm, they would not be able to continue as dairy farmers and the community would suffer economic damage.

    Conflict

    The Amish are pacifists who refuse military service and who try to live peacefully with each other and with outsiders.

    They have a policy of 'non-resistance', which means that when governments instruct them to do things that are against their faith, they refuse to do them, but accept the consequences of their refusal without argument.

    They don't go to law, regarding this as confrontational, although they have used lawyers to defend themselves if they are involved in a lawsuit started by someone else. In the famous case of Wisconsin v Yoder the Amish got round the issue of not going to law by letting a committee of non-Amish defend the case pro bono.

    Internal disagreements are usually resolved by the community as a whole.

    Although the Amish present a unified face to outsiders, communities are sometimes troubled by disputes which may lead a family to join another community or found a new one.

    Some have polarized over the shape or colour of a garment; the style of a house, carriage or harness; the use of labour-saving farm machinery or the pace of singing...

    Beneath the surface are extended families, frequently fraught with envy or jealousy, that take opposing sides...

    John A. Hostetler, Amish Society, 1993

    State benefits:

    The Amish will not accept any form of state benefit because they believe that the community should care for its members. They don't use public or private health insurance, and join together to pay for outside medical treatment.

     

    I found alot more on the amish than on quakers but I will keep searching. I think we can learn so much from these two groups, they seem to have been able to keep it simple in the face of an ever increasingly complicated world... more research into their ways, and how they manage to continue to keep strong and firm in their ways in an ever increasingly self indulgent world, would be good for us I think. I am not saying we should adopt these ways exactly, but I believe they definately offer us a basis with which to grow from

     

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    Forum Legend - founder
    994 posts

    I found this site which has hundreds and hundreds of links for all things quaker, they even have a quaker business section, there are reki healers and massage therapists listed, this was great to find.

    http://www.quaker.org/

    __________________
    The Truth is out there... somewhere... if i could just remember where i put it!
    Forum Legend - founder
    994 posts

    Here are couple of quaker links, the more I read about their beliefs and values the more I think they were the original "new ageists"

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/quaker.htm

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/quaker2.htm

    http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/quakers.htm

    Friends were also active in the antislavery movement. John Woolman, Anthony Benezet, Lucretia Mott, and John Greenleaf Whittier were involved in such activities as the underground railroad and the Colonization Society. Benjamin Lundy's ideas were presented in The Genius of Universal Emancipation.

    The tradition of caring for others carried on through the American Civil War, and the American Friends Service Committee was formed in 1917. The purpose of the organization was to provide young conscientious objectors with alternative service opportunities during wartime. A red and black star was chosen to symbolize the group.

    The Society of Friends are optimistic about the purposes of God and the destiny of mankind. Their ultimate and final authority for religious life and faith resides within each individual. Many, but not all, seek for this truth through the guidance of the inner light.

    They believe that they are bound to refuse obedience to a government when its requirements are contrary to what they believe to be the law of God, but they are willing to accept the penalties for civil disobedience.

    They practice religious democracy in their monthly meetings. After discussion of an issue, for example, the clerk states what appears to be the mind of the group; but if a single Friend feels that he cannot unite with the group, no decision is made. Their stand for religious toleration is symbolized by the inscription on the statue of Mary Dyer across from Boston Common: "Witness for Religious Freedom. Hanged on Boston Common, 1660."

    The Society of Friends has no written creed. Their philosophical differences can be seen in the fact that Richard Nixon was born into the group, while Staughton Lynd joined because of their teachings. They do have an interest in education, with the founding of Haverford, Earlham, Swarthmore, and other colleges. The teaching by example has caused some to ask why Quakers do not preach what they practice.

    Most of us living in this complex and time-pressured era have moments when we wish we were living simpler, more meaningful lives. Sometimes these wishes are fleeting desires, but for many today the search for a life of greater simplicity and meaning has developed into a deep longing.

    There are many routes to simplicity. For over three centuries Quakers have been living out of a spiritual center in a way of life they call "plain living." Their accumulated experiences and distilled wisdom have much to offer anyone seeking greater simplicity today.

    Plain Living is not about sacrifice. It's about choosing the life you really want, a form of inward simplicity that leads us to listen for the "still, small voice" of God.

    Their ideal is to pursue truth at all costs, and it is hard to imagine a higher calling here on earth.

     

    __________________
    The Truth is out there... somewhere... if i could just remember where i put it!
    Forum Legend - founder
    994 posts

    Side note, Barack and Michelle Obama have decided to enrol their girls at the Sidewell (sp) school, a quaker school!!  Interesting stuff since he is being touted as a lightworker who is going to bring instrumental change to the world..... coincidence, or universal intervention

    Wink

    __________________
    The Truth is out there... somewhere... if i could just remember where i put it!
    Forum Legend - moderator
    552 posts

    Lots of good information and links, thanks Lissa.

    We're probably going to be forced to go "back to nature" which isn't a bad thing; however, I have to think that we are supposed to be where we are at this particular time. Aren't there predictions from hundreds of years ago that discuss the "web" that will connect the world?

    If we didn't have our computer networks, we would not be able to unite the way we are at this important time on earth. To me, we have needed this technology to plunge us forward.

    As I have been leaning toward a belief that there is really no such thing as sin and also that there is only love - which means that fear/hate result from lack of love, I would have some issues with any community based traditions that would want to instill strict morality, based on what God would or would not want.

    Other than that, I think we're moving toward communties which will be settled by like-minded people. I'm going to be looking for people in my area of the US.

    Lots of positive changes coming our way, I hope.

    Forum Legend - moderator
    689 posts

    I'd like to be a Quaker. :) They are exactly the type of Christian I wish to be.

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    Forum Legend - moderator
    689 posts

    Sunbeam is right. :( So we need to prepare for that too... hm.

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